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Dalantech Jedi Web Master Posts 11743 
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Wednesday April 23rd 2008 08:09 AM - Post#98263
From Above Top Secret
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Hardrive DLT Staff Posts 13738 
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Wednesday April 23rd 2008 11:24 AM - Post#98264
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Wednesday April 23rd 2008 06:17 PM - Post#98265
Well, if they do, in a sense, they are copying from the best -- the US of A ! Crypto AG: For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120 countries. Of course, if you want it soft pedalled see Wiki's version: Crypto AG has been accused of rigging its machines in collusion with intelligence agencies such as ... the United States National Security Agency (NSA), Note: accused
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Dalantech Jedi Web Master Posts 11743
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Thursday April 24th 2008 04:09 AM - Post#98266
I'm still stunned that the Bush administration pressured ISPs to break the law and now they're trying to pass legislation that's the equivalent of a "get out of jail free card" for the companies that participated. Why hasn't WW been impeached?! 
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Thursday April 24th 2008 07:19 PM - Post#98267
I saw a Ben Franklin quote a while back to gave me the impression he expected us to go in this direction - something to the effect that we will have a republic until the corruption is so bad it all implodes. I don't have time to do the research but would like to see what he based that expectation on - cause I do think this country will implode within 50 years or so.
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880 
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Friday April 25th 2008 12:39 AM - Post#98269
Well, if they do, in a sense, they are copying from the best -- the US of A ! Crypto AG: For decades, the US has routinely intercepted and deciphered top secret encrypted messages of 120 countries. Of course, if you want it soft pedalled see Wiki's version: Crypto AG has been accused of rigging its machines in collusion with intelligence agencies such as ... the United States National Security Agency (NSA), Note: accused That's how the game is played. The point of the story isn't that the chinese are evil or something, but rather that they may have played the game better than us in this instance. Countries have been spying on each other since they were just warring tribes. But I am impressed that you read a story about the possibility of the national security of your home country being compromised, and your reflex is to immediately blame America. Not for the lack of defense of course, but for simply having an offense. And a world class offense at that. You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I'll be damned if I'll ever understand it. -M@
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 04:23 AM - Post#98344
Update to the story: "A Cisco spokesman said that the company had investigated the counterfeit gear seized by law enforcement agencies and had not found any secret back door." http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/09/technology /09cis... -M@
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Saturday May 10th 2008 11:49 AM - Post#98345
That's how the game is played. Yup, so I provided a link to support your assertion.
blame America quote me the text that you interpret as 'blame'
your reflex Reflex has a few definitions so let me assist you in getting the best one. I've always thought of it in the terms of athletic training. Eliciting a behavior at such a deep level of the brain that one doesn't really feel like one is actually 'thinking' at all, but just 'reacting to stimulus'. That perspective would be simplistic. This reflex of mine caused many frustrating conversations with my Dad. As an adult, I questioned his point of view. National Security was fundamental to his job. It was also his life. He had totally internalized it. (today it's called 'drinking the Kool-Aid') The term the "military-industrial complex" was made famous by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in his 1961 farewell address. I thought this was a path was a poor choice at a young age. long before I heard of the warning. Even when it was putting food in my mouth ! How's that for irony ? So from one who is more articulate than myself: "why can't you just accept the idea that there are many authentic and legitimate ways of life and forms of governance, and that what is good for us is not necessarily wanted by others?" An alternative choice - who needs a world class offense if one has a world class defense ?
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577 
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Saturday May 10th 2008 04:25 PM - Post#98347
The problem is bigger than just having "counterfeit" Cisco gear sprinkled in government/corporate networks across the globe. Where is it manufactured in the first place? China. They've got their fingers all over it if it's legit or not. There is a very old adage, "If you want the job done right, you gotta do it yourself". I've read the PPT slide that 'leaked', it seems that the same factories that make the legit Cisco gear simple work another shift and sell the excess out the back door. The PPT slide also points out that there are also knock-off's floating around too and they can be identified if you know what the genuine stuff should look like. The bigger problem is that it's manufactured in China and they can fiddle with IOS or even at the chip level if they really wanted to. Does this sound like paranoia? To a point it does, but when the end game of who dominates the planet is at stake, it's not so far fetched and is easily doable if you are the one doing the manufacturing and your target are your customers who buy the compromised equipment. There is a price to pay for having all your manufacturing capacity out-sourced overseas to a government you basically don't trust. It's a very high price to pay if your worst fears come true. Up until the 60's, if you wanted to buy something, it was pretty much assured that it was manufactured in this country and it's quality was high. Since then, we've been selling out our manufacturing jobs to overseas to bargain for lower prices and the quality of US made goods has gone down all the while foreign made goods have been rising in quality. By moving our manufacturing capacity overseas, we've had to train them on how to manufacture the most complex devices. That knowledge can easily be used to make weapons that can be used against us. I'm not paranoid, this is a simple fact. If you can design and build a hand held, battery operated GPS receiver up from the chip level to a finished product, you can easily design and build a missile guidance system. We let the Genie out of the bottle and for what? Lower prices, always. Wal*Mart is going to be the death of this country because every year when it's time to re-negotiate the sales contract, they insist that they buy at a lower per unit price. At some point, companies must move over seas to meet Wal*Mart's demands or else their products won't be sold by the world's largest distributor and they'll suffer if they don't meet Wal*Mart's demands. PBS/Frontline did a report a few years ago called, "Is Wal*Mart good for America?" It should be *REQUIRED* that every single American watch that episode. Watch the full program online, it's free. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ shows/walm... The only thing we make in large quantities are hamburgers. Do you want fries with that dead end job? Well, there are those out there that scream at the top of their lungs that we need free trade, yes we do but we also have to have *fair* trade too. Is it fair for China to pay their workers only 50 cents an hour and have them work in sweatshops for 12-14 hours a day and then sell those goods on the world markets at a huge markup? No it's not. Their workers are treated like slaves, the Chinese government reaps huge profits, the local manufacturing capacity is devastated because they simply can't compete with that and they either move overseas or shut down. Either way, your job is toast. Do you want fries with that toast? Who wins? China does. Now, there are no jobs here, our economy is tanking and now you are basically forced to shop at Wal*Mart to make ends meet because they have the lowest prices. There is a word for that, it's called insidious . Take the time and think about what is happening. That kool-aid The Reverend Jim Jones just gave me sure tastes good, don't it? Tariffs can balance that and level the playing field. The knowledge on how to even manufacture something has died with that outsourcing concept too. How many graduating high school seniors know how to operate a lathe, welder or soldering iron? I'm willing to bet that number is very small. They sure know how to operate a three ton SUV but they don't know how it works and if it breaks, they don't know how to fix it. This country needs to build a big frakin wall on it's borders and tariff all imports. Those tariffs should be used to build factories and schools to re-build our manufacturing base and educational system. If you want to buy a new computer, blender, TV or hammer, it should be made in this country. If you want to buy foreign made goods, fine, you'll just have to pay more for them. The only way we can trust the supply chain of goods that are used in critical government and business needs is if it's manufactured here where we are in control. For that to happen, we need to have factories that can manufacture it and we need to have educated people to work in those factories.
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Saturday May 10th 2008 04:37 PM - Post#98348
It's interesting that we both referenced Kool-Aid but in a different way. When I replied, only Hardrive's post was there an all the rest came in while I was typing my Lan-Rant. I was using the Kool-Aid as an allegory as to how Wal*Mart is poisoning this country while you used it as as a metaphor for believing your own propaganda.
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 05:32 PM - Post#98349
I don't know you, all I know of you is what I've read of your posts. And from what I've read, my impression is that you seem take every opportunity to criticize my home country. I'm not here to speculate on your relationship with your father, nor do I care. You can dissect my words and attempt to parse their meaning all you want, in an attempt to....well, I don't know what you're trying to do. And I'm not even going to argue with you, though I do take issue with several of your points....because this very quickly breaks down into a pissing contest, and it would be a huge waste of time. I believe America has done and continues to do more good than bad in the world, and from what I've read of your posts, you seem believe America always has and continues to do more bad than good for the world. That's a fundamental life view of yours that has been shaped over many years, and there's no way in hell I would be able to change your view of your country via a pissing contest on some random forum. Simply stated, I don't understand, nor do I appreciate your point of view....though you are entitled to it. -M@
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 05:56 PM - Post#98350
By moving our manufacturing capacity overseas, we've had to train them on how to manufacture the most complex devices. That knowledge can easily be used to make weapons that can be used against us. I'm not paranoid, this is a simple fact. I completely agree. If I wasn't so lazy, I would try to find a reference for this, but I remember something about when the military agrees to buy weapons systems, there's a clause in the contract about a certain percentage of components are required to be manufactured in the US. In the past 10 years or so, its become impossible to do so due to the fact that our electronics manufacturing capability has been decimated. What scares me is if/when we find ourselves in a conflict is China, how can we possibly hope to keep our weapons systems operational, when the chinese have enacted a trade embargo with us? Fortunately, I believe the chinese will find they are they're own worst enemy, I don't believe an all out conflict with them is inevitable, though it is entirely possible. I think it will be interesting watching the relationship between china and russia develop as russia reconstitutes its military. But, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the '08 olympics. Popular theory is that has been whats been keeping china in check for the last 4 years or so, not wanting to do anything to tarnish their "coming out party" as it were. Maybe we'll see an aggressive move towards taiwan in '09? I don't see the US or anyone else for that matter stepping in to stop it. If that happens, the world balance of power will have shifted overnight. China wouldn't even have to fire a shot, just the one two punch of trade embargo on us, and liquidating its $1trillion plus stash of US tbillz. Weee!! -M@
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Saturday May 10th 2008 07:07 PM - Post#98352
Earlier, I talk about how outsourcing damages this country and along comes Bank of America, trying to patent it! http://techdirt.com/articles/20080505/220 002.shtml Read the patent, specifically the Background 0003 and 0005 sections. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Se ct1=P...
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 07:15 PM - Post#98353
But on the other hand, I just today purchased a 500 GB hard drive for $89. Take that national sovereignty! -M@
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Saturday May 10th 2008 07:33 PM - Post#98354
I would have purchased $89 worth of precious metals, primarily brass, copper and lead. That'll get me lots more than $89 dollars worth of food when the depression hits.
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Saturday May 10th 2008 07:36 PM - Post#98355
I believe America has done and continues to do more good than bad in the world, and from what I've read of your posts, you seem believe America always has and continues to do more bad than good for the world. My view is there's lots of room for improvement. You would disagree with that ?
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 07:37 PM - Post#98356
I don't think the customer would have been happy if I had backed up their computer to $89 worth of brass, copper, and lead  -M@
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 10th 2008 07:51 PM - Post#98357
My view is there's lots of room for improvement. You would disagree with that ? Of course not. But like I said, I don't know you, I can only infer your point of view from your posts, and in my opinion, based on your posts, that is not your point of view. Many of your posts are down right offensive to me.......and that's ok...I don't have any right to not be offended, but I gotta tell you, I whole heartedly disagree with your approach to "finding room for improvement". I'm not trying to start a flame war, and I'm not trying to disrespect you in any way, but if someone is consistently saying things that go against everything I believe in, my silence would be tantamount to agreement. So every once in a while, I gotta get up in your grill and tell you  -M@
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Saturday May 10th 2008 07:53 PM - Post#98358
believing your own propaganda. You provide an argument in - not one but, two - cases in which corporate decisions are undermining the national security of the US ! Pot meet kettle !!
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Saturday May 10th 2008 09:01 PM - Post#98359
trying to start a flame war Hey! That's *MY* job! Git yer own!
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Saturday May 10th 2008 09:46 PM - Post#98360
It's unfortunate but true that corporations have no legal obligation to do what is in the best interest of the country. A corporation as an entity, is an artificial construct. It does not have a soul or a conscience or human morality, it's not required to. It does have a legal responsibility to return a profit to it's shareholders and it has been proven time and time again, corporations will do whatever, legal or otherwise to accomplish that primary goal. From the wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation "Currently, the modern business corporation is the dominant type of corporation. In addition to its legal personality, the modern business corporation has at least three other legal characteristics: (i) transferable shares (shareholders can change without affecting its status as a legal entity), (ii) perpetual succession capacity (its possible continued existence despite shareholders' death or withdrawal), (iii) and limited liability (including, but not limited to: the shareholders' limited responsibility for corporate debt, insulation from judgments against the corporation, shareholders' amnesty from criminal actions of the corporation, and, in some jurisdictions, limited liability for corporate officers and directors from criminal acts by the corporation)" What often happens is that a corporation will do things that a natural person would not normally do, because of the threat of the legal consequences are absorbed by the corporation, not the person who made the choice to take that action unless it was extremely heinous. A corporation will strip all the humanity out of a decision and distill it down to it's very essence. That question usually is, "Which course of action will return the greatest amount of profit for the least amount of work / risk / expenditure???" You as a person would not normally dump toxic waste on a children's playground, that's utterly abhorrent but a corporation could do that because the corporation shields the actual person who decided to do that from responsibility. That insulating layer between action and responsibility can persuade the people who run a company to do something that they would not normally do on their own. Undermining the country is one of those actions. Contaminating Camp Wannahockaloogie's lake and shoreline in the middle of the night is lots cheaper than spending millions to process that waste. So, it's in the best interest of Wal*Mart to continually pound on their suppliers to make products cheaper year after year. It gets to a point where the only way the manufacturers can do that is to move overseas. That's not Wal*Mart's problem. As long as more customers buy from them and they continually make a profit, legally, they are not doing anything wrong. If this country were to enter a depression, the odds are that the Walton family has been transferring wealth out of this country and into other currencies and they simply move to France and munch on wine and cheese the rest of their lives in Monaco while I use up my stock of precious metals to take down the marauding hoards trying to get to my food and fuel supply. My example is a bit extreme but I drew that out to illustrate my point.
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Saturday May 17th 2008 11:54 AM - Post#98384
I gotta get up in your grill and tell you Sure, sure. So what was the offense in this case ?
The point of the story isn't that the chinese are evil or something, This story is very even in the handling of the point. Not everybody handles a story the same way. My initial reply was to show that.
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Saturday May 17th 2008 04:06 PM - Post#98385
Really? After all that, you're really going to ask me "what was the offense in this case"? Come on dude, I know you can work that out on your own, you're smarter that this. You just gotta read what others write in their entirety and not just focus on little quotes here and there. Not only will your arguments be more effective, but you may actually learn something in the process. -M@
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robmac Tech Posts 1314 |
Sunday May 18th 2008 12:17 AM - Post#98386
But I am impressed that you read a story about the possibility of the national security of your home country being compromised, and your reflex is to immediately blame America. Not for the lack of defense of course, but for simply having an offense. And a world class offense at that. You're of course entitled to your opinion, but I'll be damned if I'll ever understand it. I grew up in the cold war where hiding under a school desk in response to nuclear detonation was considered rational behavior. I view this story as little more than agitprop . World class offense is good for ... exactly ... what ? Ahh Wars,
After all that, you're really going to ask me "what was the offense in this case"? Come on dude, I know you can work that out on your own, you're smarter that this. You just gotta read what others write in their entirety and not just focus on little quotes here and there. Not only will your arguments be more effective, You are really insulated if you think my posted quotes are the only thing I read and consider.
but you may actually learn something in the process. You aren't presumptuous are you ??
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Sunday May 18th 2008 02:42 PM - Post#98388
Surely you can't be serious. (No, I'm not calling you Shirley.) I don't remember actually going to war directly with the Soviet Union. It almost seems to me like a world class offense was, dare I say it?....a deterrent to possible aggressors, like the USSR? I would say a world class offense is good for *avoiding* war. But anyway, I have no desire to make arbitrary comments on 3 week old quotes. However, like I said weeks ago, this is turning into a pissing contest. Honestly, I've said my piece. I didn't get into this trying to prove to you that you're wrong, because that would be impossible to accomplish...even if I quoted and proved to the best of my ability the irrationality of every one of your arguments, it wouldn't change your mind. I merely felt it was my duty as an American citizen to "get up in your grill and tell you" (btw, you left the smiley off when you quoted me on that ) I'm happy to converse with you like an adult on the big picture of this thread, which is your view of American foreign policy vs mine, but I simply refuse to have an asinine slashdot style quote war with you.-M@
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Fortch Da Mechanic Posts 3688 
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Thursday May 22nd 2008 03:27 PM - Post#98392
Easy fellas, let's holster them weapons, now...shall we? You don't want Lan getting an itchy trigger finger, do you? Better yet, we *could* let Tony deal with yooz gyez 
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Thursday May 22nd 2008 06:14 PM - Post#98396
No way man! And wtf does "Who's the Boss?" have to do with this anyway?  -M@
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Thursday May 22nd 2008 09:42 PM - Post#98399
You start talkin' about 80's sitcom TV shows like that one with Tony Danza in this thread, You'd be begging to get banned!
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matt619 enthusiast Posts 880
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Thursday May 22nd 2008 11:48 PM - Post#98400
Oh, you mean like This ? -M@
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Friday May 23rd 2008 05:07 AM - Post#98401
<Cartman> Are you challengin' mah authoritah!?! </Cartman> Your punishment will be to perform 15 defrags and 12 scandisks on some AOL user's machine and a bandwidth throttle to 512kbps/128kbps. Don't challenge me son, I'll restrict you to dial-up if I get a whiff of any more of this!
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Fortch Da Mechanic Posts 3688
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Friday May 23rd 2008 01:48 PM - Post#98404
Oh, just wait till TFT hears Matt's comparison to Danza.
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Hardrive DLT Staff Posts 13738
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Friday May 23rd 2008 01:58 PM - Post#98405
Thanks.... My day is officially ruined. 
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Lanwizard Mostly Harmless Posts 7577
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Friday May 23rd 2008 04:05 PM - Post#98408
I think TFT would unlock his Father's foot locker and use his old collection of "tools" for such an offense. It wouldn't be quick, painless or pretty.
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